Travel Tips

Fatal Crashes in Montana and Japan: Interview with Greg Feith, Former NTSB Investigator

Locations in this article:  Buffalo, NY

Plane landing After the two fatal crashes last week—one in Montana and one in Japan—Peter spoke with Greg Feith, former lead investigator for the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB).

Peter Greenberg: Let’s start with the Montana crash because that was a single engine turbo prop that changed its flight plan about 30 minutes before the incident and then just nose-dived into a cemetery.

Greg Feith smallpicGreg Feith: Yeah, there is going to be a number of things. The obvious thing that has come out of that so far is the number of people on the plane. You have to remember the FAA does allow us to put two kids into one seat because it’s by weight. So if you have two small children, or one that’s small enough to be sitting on a lap, while they add up for the number of people on the airplane, you may not necessarily exceed that total weight of the aircraft. The big thing is determining how much baggage and equipment—since they were going skiing—was on the airplane in addition to all those people.

Peter tinyPG: And also Greg, I have to throw at you two letters which I know you know: CG.

Greg Feith smallpicGF: Yes, center of gravity. That’s a huge issue because as the airplane burns fuel, of course the center of gravity starts to shift. It starts to move either forward or backwards depending on how people and luggage are loaded. One of the key objectives of the NTSB is to figure that out. But you also have to look at weather because they did come through some ice—there is a question about whether ice had any effect on the airplane.

And then there was this strange thing where the pilot was configuring the airplane to land, but he never set the flaps. He had the landing gear down but the flaps were up. So now you have to look at why. Were they originally down and he pulled them up? Or did they never go down to start with? That means they have to look at a mechanical problem. And then the last thing of course is a physical problem—was there something going on with the pilot himself? He was 65 years old so you have to look at the physical aspect as well.

Peter tinyPG:  Now let’s shift gears and talk about Narita and the FedEx crash in Japan. That video, I have to tell you, I’ve looked at probably 20 times now. It’s amazing.

Greg Feith smallpicGF: It is absolutely spectacular in the absolute worst way. For investigators though, that is going to help them. I think the leading cause factor right now will be the wind. That airplane encountered some gusty wind conditions. There were some reports of wind as the plane was landing, and if the pilot was experiencing something which we call a “sinker,” where the bottom falls out right as the come in for their final approach, the airplane is going to bounce hard.

If you remember about five or six years ago, FedEx lost an airplane at Newark to almost the same thing. It hit hard, the airplane rebounded and bounced back up, the landing gear broke, the wing spar broke, and then the rest was history. It’s almost identical to what happened in Japan. And in both cases the plane ended up upside down because if one wing breaks, the other wing is still producing lift. So it will want to roll onto the broken wing’s side, and a lot of times that will get it upside down. That’s exactly what happened both in Newark and in Japan.

Peter tinyPG: When you look at the video of that plane, when it bounces down that second time then bounces back up, starts that roll and becomes consumed in flames, the right wing—which was intact and never hit anything—actually breaks apart.

Greg Feith smallpicGF: That was a wing spar that broke– it came apart, and that’s a huge problem with that airplane.

Peter tinyPG: In the Continental crash near Buffalo originally it was thought that icing may be an issue, but now there’s some thought that it may be pilot error?

Greg Feith smallpicGF: One of the things that the NTSB starts to focus on is the crew and their operation in the icing conditions. There had been a lot of recommendations that the pilots hand-fly the airplane rather than use the autopilot. That’s because the autopilot could mask some of the tell-tale symptoms of what the ice could be doing to the airplane systems as far as aerodynamics.

So it’s going to be crew actions, crew procedures that are really going to be the focus of that investigation. Airplanes today, when they’re certified for flight into known icing conditions, have to meet very stringent requirements. So it’s very unusual now that these airplanes are going to suffer the real effects of icing based on the new certification criteria.

Peter tinyPG: So in a situation like this when the plane is being flown on autopilot for a long time, when you’re in a potential weather situation, wouldn’t it make sense to physically feel the plane by manually flying it?

Greg Feith smallpicGF: Absolutely, and that’s why it’s been recommended that the pilots hand-fly the airplane because as a pilot you have to know when to intervene. You leave the plane on autopilot, the autopilot will do what it takes to maintain altitude. If the pilot isn’t fully plugged into what the autopilot is doing to make that happen, all of a sudden the autopilot has a limitation and runs out of its authority saying, “I give up, I can’t handle the airplane anymore; it’s your airplane.” Now the pilot has to get on the flight controls, figure out what the airplane is doing, and take corrective action. Well, it’s happening in very, very fast segments and pilots can’t react that fast.

Peter tinyPG: Not only that, but at the time this happened, his relative altitude was low. The altitude above you isn’t going to help you.

Greg Feith smallpicGF: True, that’s a good point. If a plane is only 1,600 feet above the ground and it pitches over, it’s going to start descending at a very quick rate.  Unless you quickly take the appropriate corrective action, you’re probably not going to salvage the bad situation, and I think that’s what happened with the folks up in Buffalo.

Peter tinyPG: After a period of almost eight years of unprecedented great safety in the air, we’re seeing a whole mess of things start to happen right now. Is it just a coincidence?

Greg Feith smallpicGF: I think some of it’s coincidence, and some of it is that we get complacent. We’ve had such a good safety record that the last major or huge accident we had here in the United States was the tragic accident in Queens, New York. I think after that accident we decided that whatever we’re doing here is right and we went flatline. Now the cycle has come back.

From Peter Greenberg Worldwide Radio

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